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-- MELBOURNE, AUSTRALIA. THE SUNDAY AGE 23/04/1995     WRITER: BEN MITCHELL       PAGE:5
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NET LETS HACKERS LAND A CATCH.  
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 A MELBOURNE computer hacker was offered more than 1000 of the 1200 credit
card numbers hacked from an Internet provider during the week, just hours 
before the Federal Police raided the home of a Sydney computer expert over 
the theft.

 The hacker, who operates under the codename "rewt2", said he was offered the
numbers in exchange for information on how to gain control of a computer
network. The hacker declined the offer.
 "The information he wanted is worth more than 1000 credit card numbers, plus
most of the credit card numbers he got will have been deleted now because
the hack has been in the media," "rewt2" said.

 Computer expert Mr Skeeve Stevens was raided by the Federal Police on
Wednesday after he contacted a computer journalist with details of the
credit card number theft from AUSnet services - a Sydney-based Internet
provider. Mr Stevens has denied any involvement in the break-in.

 Five active hackers interviewed over the Internet by `The Sunday Age' last
week said the increasing number of businesses and other organizations
joining the global network had made hacking -- or illegally gaining access
to computer networks via a computer and a modem -- a lot easier.

 One hacker, who operates under the codename "CtDrac", described the Internet
as a "hacker's assistant".

 "The Internet is not the only place to hack, but it can be used to get
information for other networks and to obtain credit card numbers and also as
a way of making free overseas calls," 20-year-old "CtDrac" said.

 Convicted hacker "Data King", who claimed he had retired from hacking, said
in many cases the Internet was too easy to hack.

 "When I was hacking 11 years ago it was a lot more diffucult than what I see
and hear from active hackers now. Many of them prefer not to hack on the
(Inter) net because it doesn't provide a challenge for them," "Data King"
said. 
   "The Internet has also made it easier for hackers to communicate and
discuss different techniques."

 Another hacker, who wished to be called by his codename "FRaCTal INSaNiTY",
said the hacker who stole the credit card numbers from AUSnet had broken a
fundamental rule of hacking by going public.

 "He is stupid, a real loser. What he did was lame and very, very simple. He
let people know what he did, he can't do it again now. Anyway, I wouldn't
bother stealing credit card numbers when I can make them myself," "FRaCTal
INSaNiTY" said.

 All the hackers agreed it was "disgustingly easy" to create credit card
accounts.

 They said they broke into computer networks mainly to test their skills
rather than to destroy or alter sensitive data banks.

 An 18-year-old hacker from Western Australia, whose codename is "2CB", said
for many hackers breaking into a computer network was seen as a game or
battle of wits.
 "For me if i get root (control of a network), I just clear the logs and
leave. Sometimes I'll leave a hole to get back in, otherwise it's just a job
completed," "2CB" said.

 The hackers said they had been inside the restricted areas of most
university computer networks, but were not prepared to discuss commercial
organizations they had hacked into.
 "I've been inside VicRoads, but I wont talk about other places.If we do that
they will shut down their systems and we will lose access," "rewt2" said.

 The hackers said businesses looking to get on the Internet, however, should
not be concerned by their activities.
 "No they shouldn't. We may break in,and they wont be able to stop us doing
that, but we won't destroy/modify anything. We just get a rush out of being
able to get and see things that we shouldnt," "FRaCTal INSaNiTY" said.

 Melbourne-based hacker "slogic", who is 22, said because the Internet was
still in its early stages in Australia, many organizations did not know how
to protect themselves from hackers.
 "By connecting many systems together, and with a lot of systems being
accessible by a lot of people,it opens up security problems because a lot of           
system admins don't know what they are doing with security." "slogic" said.
 He said for some hackers breaking in to a supposedly secure organization
like Telecom was a "power trip".

 The hackers said the Internet had also made phone "phreaking", or tapping
into the telecomunications network to make a phone call from another persons
number, a lot easier.

 "Telecom won't admit that it can happen, but i have made free calls,
conference calls and changed peoples phone numbers without any
trouble," "slogic" said.
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SUB ARTICLE: INTERVIEW WITH THE HACKER.
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(this was on the side of the same page.)

Reporter: What do you use the internet for?
 
<hacker 1>: Internet can be used to get information for other networks (to
-hack), and to obtain credit card numbers, phone cards, and free access to
-overseas networks to hack.
<hacker 2>: Phreaking is tied in with hacking. It allows hackers to make
-free calls by dialing out through someone elses phone number. It is very
-hard for Telecom to trace.

Reporter: How often do you guys hack?
<hacker 3>: continuously
<hacker 1>: types in a smiley face (indicating that the hacker is being
-friendly)
<hacker 2> On and off...it's basically a game...(smile)